E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC BRISBANE DRIVE
MONDAY, 8 APRIL 2019
 
SUBJECT/S: 2019 election; Parliamentary priorities; income tax cuts; start-ups and entrepreneurs; franchising inquiry report; banking royal commission; global economy; projected surplus
 
STEVE AUSTIN: The federal election isn't happening, but it kind of is. Scott Morrison's in Brisbane. He gave a speech to the Valley Chamber of Commerce business lunch today at Cloudland. Bill Shorten was jogging this morning and had breakfast with the Brisbane Broncos. In the studio with me are two federal parliamentarians. I must say, I'm delighted that they're here. Jim Chalmers is a Labor member here in Brisbane. Jim, thanks for coming in.
 
JIM CHALMERS, SHADOW MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks for that, I've got a butcher joke for you too, Steve, if you're interested?
 
AUSTIN: Hit me with it, hit me with it!
 
CHALMERS: So when I was a little kid I went to the shops with my mum, we went to the butcher's. This really feeds your story about butchers always being happy.
 
AUSTIN: Yep.
 
CHALMERS: This actually happened, by the way. It's not a joke. Well, it's a joke from his end. We went to the butcher, and I was there with my mum. I was probably 10 or 12 years' old. Probably in the school uniform. And I noticed he had laid out all of these tongues at the butcher's.
 
AUSTIN: (Laughs) Yes. 
 
CHALMERS: And I said to my mum, obviously loud enough that the butcher could here, I said what are they for? And the butcher pipes up and said "that's for when you're a bit older and you go to parties and you have to take your own 'licker'."
 
AUSTIN: (Laughs) Butchers! Butchers!
 
CHALMERS: You like that one?!
 
AUSTIN: Butchers! They're great!
 
CHALMERS: (Laughs) They are great.
 
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers is the Labor Member for Rankin. Jim, what's your margin of safety in your electorate? 
 
CHALMERS: I'd never call it that, Steve, obviously. Don't take anybody for granted. I've got a margin of just over 11 per cent. But on my computer in my electorate office I've got a little yellow post-it note and it says 33,061 - three, three, comma, zero, six one. That's the number of people who didn't vote for me last time who I've tried to convince this time.
 
AUSTIN: Well I'm grateful you're here. I know it's a difficult time. It's sort of like being half pregnant, isn't it? You're not quite in an election, but you're acting as if you're in an election.
 
CHALMERS: I went for a jog with the Broncos and Bill this morning...
 
AUSTIN: Did you really?
 
CHALMERS: ...around Red Hill. Yeah, it was fantastic, with Darius and Ali, the two captains, and Heather and Julia from the women's team, and had a good chat to Paul White. It was a great start to the day.
 
AUSTIN: Many years ago, I was in France staying with a mate and there was, like the French do, they have discussion panels at 5.30 on television. But they have philosophy panels. 
 
CHALMERS: (Laughs) Of course. 
 
AUSTIN: We have game shows, they have philosophy panels. And they were critiquing Sarkozy, and because he was running they described his managerial style and being too managerial. That if you jog it shows you're too managerial and not in touch with the people.
 
CHALMERS: Not enough cheese and bubbles.
 
AUSTIN: (Laughs) Luke Howarth is my guest as well, Luke's the LNP Member for Petrie. Luke, thanks for coming in.
 
LUKE HOWARTH, LNP MEMBER FOR PETRIE: Yeah, great to be here, thanks for having me on Steve.
 
AUSTIN: What's your margin?
 
HOWARTH: 1.65 per cent.
 
AUSTIN: So you're on a tight margin?
 
HOWARTH: I'm on a tight margin. In 2016 it was 0.6, so I've been tighter. But I was glad it went up last time, and I'm going to do my best to increase it this time as well.
 
AUSTIN: Do you have a counter on your laptop at the office that works out how many people haven't voted for you like Jim Chalmers?
 
HOWARTH: No, I just run around my electorate and meet as many people as I can wherever I go.
 
AUSTIN: Are there any butchers left in your area?
 
HOWARTH: There are some butchers. I don't really have a joke like Jim, but when I was a kid, I used to go to the butcher with mum and dad and they'd always just give you a saveloy. Remember that? And give you a little sausage when you were a kid. I don't know if they still do that nowadays, but I've still got a few local butchers still.
 
AUSTIN: OK, onto matters at hand. What of the Federal Government's agenda is yet to be done? Has not been completed, Luke?
 
HOWARTH: Obviously, there's been a lot done with new jobs created and a strong economy. Of course, strong borders, everything else that's happening there. But we want to get through our tax cuts that have been proposed. So that's still to be done. We'll need to win the next federal election to do that and to increase our margin. But that's very important. Because when you give people tax cuts and allow them to keep more of their money, that helps with cost of living. And as I say, we believe in lower taxes. It's not our money. It's their money, and we want them to keep more of it. And now that we've come back to surplus, or forecast a surplus for the first time in 12 years, that's really important. Now's the time to be cutting taxes, not raising them.
 
AUSTIN: Anything else apart from the tax cuts not done?
 
HOWARTH: Well, we've also got another $1.2 million jobs that we want to create. We've created 1.2 million over the last five years, got the unemployment down to five per cent, but we're not stopping there. We want another $1.2 million over the next five years, which is really important. We've got $100 billion infrastructure to get through...
 
AUSTIN: Ok, let me rephrase my question.
 
HOWARTH: Sure.
 
AUSTIN: How many bills are sitting on the table before federal Parliament that have not been debated?
 
HOWARTH: As a backbencher, I go down each week, 18 weeks a year, when I'm there. The rest of the time I'm at home talking locally. There's always bills before the Parliament, and what comes up I look at it and go OK what have we got on this week? Do I want to speak on it? And do I want to support it and everything else?
 
AUSTIN: So the only one that's important is the tax cuts one? Everything else in secondary?
 
HOWARTH: No, there's a lot of bills. We obviously got through a whole range of things, but I'm just saying they're some of the big ticket items that we want to get through. 
 
AUSTIN: OK, alright. I'm asking this because given there's no federal election announcement, why isn't the federal Government back at work in Parliament trying to pass the tax bills...
 
HOWARTH: Because a lot of the work that we do, as far as I'm concerned, as a federal MP. I mean, Jim's a Shadow Minister, he might be a bit different and have a different spin, but the fact is a lot of the work I do is on the ground talking with my constituents every day, like I did on the weekend when I was out at Carseldine and out at the Redcliffe Markets. You listen, you hear what they've got to say, and then you go down and implement it. We don't need to be in Parliament to be working hard all the time. If you look at when the Queensland Parliament sits, in the last few years they sit about 13 weeks a year. We're doing about 18 to 20 weeks a year, so you don't have to be working in Parliament to be working for the people.
 
AUSTIN: OK, Luke Howarth is my guest. Luke is a Government backbencher. Jim Chalmers is a Shadow Minister. Jim, what's sitting on the table there that Labor thinks could be dealt with?
 
CHALMERS: There's about 50 bills before the House of Representatives which weren't passed by the time that Parliament got up. I think if you include the Senate, it's somewhere between about 100 and 120. I actually have the same view as Luke that the one that would have been good to pass before we rose was the part of the tax cuts legislation that would see people get tax relief in the middle incomes on the 1st of July this year. We've actually just heard from the Senate today, which has got their estimates process, their committee process, that the tax office actually can't implement those tax cuts for the 1st of July unless those bills are passed beforehand. That means whoever wins the election will have to get the Parliament back together in June. But that would be a good priority. We also haven't passed the so-called...
 
AUSTIN: Could that have passed this week? Could Luke's or the Government's tax bill have passed this week in federal Parliament?
 
CHALMERS: Certainly the tax cuts that apply to the first of July. So the tax cuts for people under $126,000 a year, we said on the night on the Budget, on the night that Josh Frydenberg handed down the Budget, we said we'd be prepared to support that. That could have passed last week, and that would have given the tax office the certainty to implement those tax cuts.
 
AUSTIN: OK, so look we could have got that done but it wasn't done because Parliament's not working?
 
HOWARTH: No, look I think there was other things that come up too. Obviously, with the Christchurch attack a few weeks ago, we introduced a bill there in relation to social media companies and not sharing horrific events.
 
CHALMERS: We passed that one though.
 
HOWARTH: Yeah, so there were a number of things, but last week we were there for three days, until Thursday, and then this week it's Senate estimates. We're working flat out the whole time, I can assure you of that.
 
AUSTIN: Alright, well I'll move on. So what in the federal Budget was there that actually encourages risk-taking and entrepreneurship? It's a big feature that the state government here in Queensland is putting a lot of money into. Those sort of digital start-ups, those very entrepreneurial groups that take big risks and try and get new companies going and thus employ people too by the way. The Federal Government often refers to companies like Atlassian, which is an Australian company that's doing really well. What in the federal Budget was there to encourage entrepreneurs and start-up operations.
 
HOWARTH: Well the best way to encourage entrepreneurs and start-up operations is to make it viable and for them to get into business. So obviously we put through the instant asset tax write-off, which is really important. So if someone does start up a new business, they can buy as many items as they want when setting up, up to $30,000, and instantly write it off that year, which is really important. There's also the Medical Research Fund, which will contributed to as well. There's our ideas around inland freight rail and dams and water out west. So it's not just for start-ups, but it's around agriculture and our plans to move people and provide infrastructure out west outside of the capital cities.
 
AUSTIN: There's a very big regional focus in the federal Budget too.
 
HOWARTH: Well there is, but when I'm in my electorate, which is a city, part of it's in Brisbane, people talk about farming all the time. How do we get more water out west? How do we get more infrastructure out west? That's important. So this freight line too from Melbourne to Brisbane will be important. But the best way to encourage entrepreneurs, lower taxes, low instant asset tax write off, and yeah, support in that regard. And keep in mind too we've already passed company tax for businesses up to $50 million, which is where we've seen all the jobs growth.
 
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers, what about the Budget Reply speech? What was in there for entrepreneurs and start-ups from the Labor Party?
 
CHALMERS: A lot of what we had to say about entrepreneurs and start-ups, we had already had out on the table before Thursday night. I think tax, as Luke says, is part of the story. We've supported tax cuts up to the $50 million size of the company. We support the instant asset write-off. In fact, we were the authors of the original instant asset write-off. Tax is important. We've also got, different to the Government, a policy called the Australian Investment Guarantee, which is about being able to depreciate the things that you invest in faster than you currently can now. So tax is important but you've got to get the whole ecosystem right. I've been on this program before talking about the future of work and some writing that I did with Mike Quigley, the book we wrote called Changing Jobs - to give it a plug, Steve. But we've got to get the whole ecosystem right. The most important part of that is probably human capital, making sure that our universities are geared up properly, our TAFEs, our technical education - that we can turn good ideas into good businesses. All of those things are absolutely crucial as well.
 
AUSTIN: My guests are two federal members of Parliament, Jim Chalmers, ALP Member for Rankin, Luke Howarth, LNP Member for Petrie. This is ABC Radio Brisbane. Steve Austin's my name. Where is the franchising inquiry report recommendations at? What ones have been passed? Luke Howarth.
 
HOWARTH: Just following on from Jim, don't get forget apprentices too, because we've got some policy in the Budget to help with apprenticeships which is really important too.
 
AUSTIN: What tool subsidies?
 
HOWARTH: Yeah, and in relation to universities, the Government's invested in my area, the Moreton Bay University. We've pumped over $200 million in that, and that's really important. It opens next year out in Petrie for those people out in Moreton Bay, it opens in 2020, which is really important.
 
CHALMERS: Steve, I just really can't let that stand. I mean, there've been massive cuts to apprenticeships. A little bit put back in on Tuesday night, but massive cuts over six years. Labor's got a policy for 150,000 apprenticeships. I know that Luke is well-intentioned, but if you're talking about apprenticeships, we have seen them hollowed out over the last six years.
 
AUSTIN: Alright.
 
HOWARTH: I disagree, but we'll move on.
 
AUSTIN: OK, the franchising inquiry report. Where are the recommendations at? A lot of my listeners followed this very closely, a lot of mum and dad operations got burnt by different franchise operations. How much of that report's recommendations have actually been passed by federal Parliament?
 
HOWARTH: I'm not sure, Steve, to tell you the truth. No-one has mentioned that to me in my electorate, so...
 
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers, do you know?
 
CHALMERS: No, the report only came down a couple of weeks ago, but it made some really important recommendations, I think in two main areas. The first one is, how do we prevent people who work in franchises, how do we make sure they're getting a fair go? There have been some horrific stories about underpayment of wages, that sort of thing.
 
AUSTIN: So Labor Opposition though, are you prepared to pass all of the recommendations from that report?
 
CHALMERS: We certainly take a favourable view to the recommendations. I don't have every one of them in front of me right now. But we put out a release as soon as the report was tabled saying that some good points had been made. But the second area which I think people don't think enough about is the power imbalance between the franchiser and the franchisee.
 
AUSTIN: Yes.
 
CHALMERS: Often the franchiser is a big multinational corporation, and whether it's in cars which we've spent a lot of time talking about or in other areas, quite often the relationship is imbalanced, the terms aren't properly explained to the franchisee, so a lot of people who might just be mum and dad businesses in Australia can be treated quite poorly. 
 
AUSTIN: Jim Chalmers, which of the financial services royal commission recommendations are not going to be passed, or won't be passed? I think most of them have been, except there's one or two sticking points only. 
 
CHALMERS: The recommendations of the royal commission?
 
AUSTIN: Yes.
 
CHALMERS: Oh no, only a couple have been passed through the Parliament.
 
AUSTIN: Most of them will pass though except for one or two, is that not right?
 
CHALMERS: That is likely, yes, but it's a long way down the track in some cases. So there were 76 recommendations. I think two or three were passed in the last couple of weeks in the Parliament. We have said we'd pass 75 of the 76 and we've found a better way to do the 76th one. So our intention is to pass all of them except for one in an improved way. But right now, as it stands, only a couple have gone through.
 
AUSTIN: Do you know Luke? Because you voted against the Royal Commission initially didn't you?
 
HOWARTH: No, that's incorrect. We never voted against the Royal Commission. Only the Government can implement a Royal Commission. What we voted against was Jim Chalmers and Bill Shorten disrupted parliamentary business.
 
CHALMERS: (Laughs) Come on!
 
HOWARTH: That's what we voted against.
 
CHALMERS: You voted against it 26 times.
 
HOWARTH: No, no, that's what we voted against. That is not true.
 
CHALMERS: 26 times.
 
HOWARTH: What we voted against was the Opposition disrupting Government business. So, for example...
 
CHALMERS: You know they write these votes down?
 
HOWARTH: Hang on, let me say, Jim says a minute ago he passed tax cuts for businesses up to $50 million. Well, for two or three or four years, they fought against it and would only pass it up to $2 million companies. Now on the eve of an election, Jim says oh no, we're with you. We're allowing tax cuts up to $50 million.
 
CHALMERS: It was last year, Luke.
 
HOWARTH: The point is, we were debating bills like that and the Opposition came in and would say you've got to have a royal commission into this. Well, hang on, we're not voting for that now, we're talking about tax cuts, we're talking about national security. And they introduced bills and we said no, we're not voting for that because we're the Government and we're doing these bills. Only the Government can call a royal commission and that's what the former Prime Minister did in the end.
 
AUSTIN: I understand that, so where are the recommendations remaining with the royal commission into the banking and financial services?
 
HOWARTH: As Jim said, there's been a few passed, but the point is that...
 
AUSTIN: So there's a lot still sitting on the table?
 
HOWARTH: Yeah, there is, there is.
 
AUSTIN: I'll come back to my original question. Why isn't federal Parliament back? If there's no federal election, why aren't you back down there debating them and getting them passed?
 
HOWARTH: Well I guess because it takes time. And the fact is, our agenda will be slightly different, I suspect, from Labor's if they form Government. Labor said they were passing all 76 recommendations, now they're not, they're only doing 75. But I actually want to have a good look at it, because when I've been out listening to people, I've had a lot of mortgage brokers coming to talk to me about it.
 
AUSTIN: They've been talking to everyone.
 
HOWARTH: Yeah, yeah. And they've got a good point Steve because if we pass every recommendation that was passed down, it'd hand more power to the banks and less choice for consumers that I represent. So it needs to be thought through carefully, and to be quite honest, we know the election is in early May, mid-May. So there's not much time to do it. The next Government that's elected by the people will do it.
 
AUSTIN: So what date will it be?
 
HOWARTH: Well we know it'll be May 11, 18 or 25th. I think we're down to 18 or 25 now. I think we had to call it yesterday for 11. So it's the 18th or 25th.
 
CHALMERS: Could have called it today for the 11th.
 
AUSTIN: Luke Howarth is the LNP Member for Petrie, Jim Chalmers the ALP Member for Rankin. Luke, the Liberal Party HQ for the election is being set up here in Brisbane. Why?
 
HOWARTH: Mate, I don't know. I'm not on a high enough pay scale to know that. But look, to be honest with you, if they're outside of the LNP. So the Liberal National Party is a party based in Queensland. The Liberal Party HQ is outside of the LNP. But I suspect it's because Queensland's important. We've got 30 seats, the Liberal National Party hold 21 of them, and we want to hold all of them and pick up a couple. So it's an important state and I welcome them to Queensland.
 
AUSTIN: Jim, apparently yours is in Parramatta.
 
CHALMERS: Correct.
 
AUSTIN: Why?
 
CHALMERS: I think it's a combination of where you can get a good deal on some real estate, where you've got the technological capacity, where you've got shadow ministers and others passing through, all of those sorts of things. I think at the end of the day, the way campaigns are now...
 
AUSTIN: I'm assuming it means because the Libs are worried about Queensland and Labor's worried about western Sydney?
 
CHALMERS: You'd have to ask the Libs about Queensland. Our view is we're contesting a handful of seats in every state. We're pretty well spread out around the place. Queensland is crucial to us, as it is crucial to the LNP. We're contesting a heap of seats here, including putting up a big fight in Luke's seat with our terrific candidate Corinne Mulholland. So we're doing our best everywhere and I think the way modern campaigning is, it matters less now than it used whereabouts your headquarters is.
 
AUSTIN: Alright, question for both of you. Do both of you hold one of those free memberships in the Qantas Chairman's Lounge?
 
CHALMERS: Yeah, I do.
 
HOWARTH: Yes.
 
CHALMERS: And the equivalent for the other mob as well.
 
AUSTIN: My listeners only found out about this a couple of weeks ago. The said how can this be? Is it appropriate? I mean, they've just withdrawn Fraser Anning's, I know that whole argument. But given that you guys debate a lot about airline policies, is it appropriate to have a nice, free membership to a Chairman's Lounge at the Qantas Club?
 
HOWARTH: I can't remember debating anything about airline policy in the last five years but to be honest with you, I'm a straight shooter mate, and I'd just say what I'd think is appropriate, not because I get a free meal while I'm waiting for a plane to be honest with you.
 
AUSTIN: Jim?
 
CHALMERS: Yeah it wouldn't sway me either. I think the most important thing is that it's disclosed and declared in the proper way. And if it is then people know that it's there.
 
AUSTIN: I want to take some calls on butchers in just a moment, but before I go, the IMF and others have been warning about a possible global slowdown. Jim Chalmers, what's the plan if it happens? Labor is splashing out serious money, or planning to. And if there's a global slowdown, do you think it's wise to splash that much cash?
 
CHALMERS: I just would vigorously contest the view that we're splashing around more than our opponents. The whole reason, or one of the reasons apart from it being unfair that we're not supporting the later stage - $150 billion or so of LNP tax cuts which overwhelmingly favour the wealthiest Australians, because we think that's irresponsible. We'll actually go to the election with a stronger more responsible set of books than our opponents. And that's because we won't be defending these big tax cuts for the top end of town. And that's because we do think that there are some clouds on the international horizon in the economy. The global economy's been remarkably resilient for the last five or six years, but there is a lot that troubles us - China-US, Brexit, the Korean Peninsula. There's a lot of geopolitical strife that could have implications for the global economy, and so our responsibility is to take to the election a more responsible set of books. Not build into the Budget a whole bunch of unafforable and unfair tax cuts, which the nation can't afford, and which would hamper our ability to deal with a global downturn.
 
AUSTIN: Luke Howarth?
 
HOWARTH: The nation can afford tax cuts. It's important. And Jim is right, we're delivering $140 billion in new tax cuts. They're at half of that. And when you listen to people, like the National Centre for Social Economic Modelling, they say that under the LNP, they'll be $1000 better off, the average Australian. And we want to deliver tax cuts. We unashamedly support lower taxes, and now is the time to do it. We've come back to surplus for the first time in 12 years. We've created 1.2 million jobs. That's how you set up for a strong economy. Last time when the GFC was on, Howard had left $40 or $50 billion in the bank. Labor didn't deliver one surplus in six years.
 
CHALMERS: You haven't delivered one either, Luke.
 
HOWARTH: When Jim was part of Wayne Swan's team...
 
CHALMERS: You haven't delivered one either, Luke!
 
HOWARTH: So Jim's been down in Canberra now for years...
 
CHALMERS: How many have you delivered? How many have the LNP delivered?
 
HOWARTH: And now, for the first time, we've handed down for the 2019-20...
 
CHALMERS: (Laughs) That's next year.
 
HOWARTH: ...a $7.1....
 
CHALMERS: That's next year, Luke, you haven't handed one down yet.
 
HOWARTH: Well keep interrupting me Dr Jim. But the fact is, you've been in Canberra for 10 years. I've been in the private sector...
 
CHALMERS: This is pathetic.
 
HOWARTH: ...and I saw the surplus that Howard left and when you were Swan, six years of Budget deficits. We've had a $55 billion turnaround since we've come in. And he's incorrect to say the Budget we delivered last week for the 19-20 year has a $7.1 billion predicted surplus.
 
CHALMERS: It hasn't happened yet.
 
HOWARTH: We will deliver it, and in the next four years, there's another $45 billion to come. We can't risk Labor at the moment.
 
AUSTIN: Alright, gentlemen, I really appreciate both of you coming in at an unusual time. Jim Chalmers, Labor Member for Rankin. Thank you, Jim.
 
CHALMERS: Thank you, Steve.
 
AUSTIN: Luke Howarth, Liberal Member for Petrie. Luke thanks so much for coming in.
 
HOWARTH: Thanks a lot.
 
ENDS